May 10, 2004

let's talk about porn

That's what The Center for Applied and Professional Ethics at California State University, Chico is going to be doing tomorrow Thursday night, 5/6.

This is a scheduled CAPE forum, which will have presenters ranging from pornographers to philosophy professors. Each presenter will speak for about 10 - 15 minutes, after which there will be a Q & A session. What is the driving force of this forum? Whether porn should be allowed to exist.

So, in honor of this momentous occasion, I thought we should talk about it right here. I will use some of the questions brought up in the article and add some of my own. If you have a question that you would like asked as well, bring it on. Here we go.

1. Pornography is increasingly becoming more mainstream...is this a good thing or a bad thing?

2. Is pornography a form of expression that should be protected as free speech? (i.e. is it art, or crap?)

3. Is pornography the objectification of women and thus harmful?

4. Does pornography have educational value?

5. Does pornography promote destructive practices?

6. Is pornography damaging to personal relationships?

7. Does pornography increase the viewer's tendency to lie?

8. Does pornography promote sexual freedom and promiscuity, and especially the lack of consequences of such behavior?

9. Does pornography lead to sexual addiction? (I'm going to refer you to an old Blogger post on this one, since the archives aren't here yet, so that you can decipher what qualifies as a sex addict)

Additional Question from Comments: This is undoubtedly a wake-up call for the industry. But, what kind of wake-up call is it? Physical? (professional - should use condoms) Emotional? (should heal past experiences) Spiritual? (moral - should get closer to God & give up hedonism)

That should be enough for now! Again, if you have more, let me know and I will add them. Although, I think this is a lot to answer already and no one will really have the energy to come up with more. LOL

UPDATE: You may want to switch to the permalink view for this post. The responses are kind of lengthy and they will be easier to read full screen.

UPDATE 5/7: Bumped for further review.
(it's getting really interesting...come on, you know you want to post...give it up)

UPDATE 5/10: Bumped again so we can hear from some other people. I have also removed the extended view so that questions are seen immediately. And, you'll notice there is an additional question that came up from the comments. This has been a great post.

UPDATE 5/10...(again): Michele's readers have some interesting things to say too.

Linda's brain blurted out at 12:00 PM
Consciousness (24)
Ľ Just A Girl synapses with: RE: Blogs - 4
Ľ A Small Victory synapses with: While you are waiting: porn
Ľ Rocket Jones synapses with: Rocketing Around the Blogosphere
Ľ dramaqueen .:. my horns are tangled in my halo synapses with: bobs and bits
Comments

oooh! interesting post, and I will answer although not now cos my nice big comfy bed is a'callin' me.

and not in a porno way.

Posted by: goldie at May 5, 2004 08:18 AM

Forgive me if I get a bit graphic and wordy...this topic comes up a lot in my personal life.

1) Both good and bad. Porn itself becoming more mainstream is, in my mind, a good thing. Sexuality is too often hidden under the proverbial covers of societal thought, and thus people learn that even their constructive and productive thoughts regarding sex are bad/wrong/sinful etc. Unfortunately, the KIND of porn that is becoming mainstream and acceptable is oft-times reprehensible and that I find more than mildly disturbing.

2)Art, until it crosses the same lines that other speech must cross to become anti-social. While I dislike seeing some "humiliation porn" it's still within what I would call protected speech, but porn calling for murdering your partners would be too much. Then again, in Hollywood we call it "Basic Instinct" and it makes millions.

3)OK...the long one. Sorry.
Sadly, so much of porn is anti-woman that it skews the debate. Pro porn and mainstream porn (the porn people tend to think of) is generally based on degrading women. Not by the fact that women want to have wanton sex, and not necessarily the kinds of wanton sex they choose. But the fact that the sex they have is often male-centric and is chosen FOR THEM by the script and their partner(s). To simplify, there is nothing wrong with pounding anal sex/facials/spanking/ etc. but it's the fact that these are so much the only choices offered in mainstream porn. In continual attempts to outdo each other, mainstream porn has propogated a whole series of excesses and tried to pass them off as average. This can lead to impressionable (read: inexperienced) minds assuming that every woman wants a "goatse" experience and if she doesn't, she's just frigid.

That said, pornography itself does not have to be about double anal, bukkake, or triple fisting. It's like rap: 90% of what you hear in the media is stereotypical gangsta bitch/ho/blingbling/muthafucka bullshit that you can forget the thousands of people making great music under the radar. So to confuse "pornography" with "humiliation pornography" or to assume that even non-humiliating but extreme porn is all of porn is to accept the fallacy of both the mainstream porn producers as well as the anti-porn crusaders.

4) Absolutely, if you mean educational in "how to have sex." Yes you could add politics or history to porn, but 99% of the time you wouldn't want to. But sometimes you do. Then again, change the word "porn" to "rock music" and you see how easy this question is.

5) See #3. But again, it depends on the porn you choose. Look, I like porn. A lot. And 95% of the porn I experience I experience with a woman; we both enjoy it. You just have to weed through the high grass to find the blooms.

6) Only if you lie about it, just like everything else (booze, drugs, the Church - yes, the Church) you lie about in a relationship. If you use porn to explore or introduce what you enjoy with your loving partner, it can be a wonderful tool.

Heh heh heh I said tool.

7) Why?

8) A loaded question that assumes porn exists in a vacuum. Of course porn isn't going to show people going to the clinic, or even waking up the next day sore in various personal spots. Then again, rock concert movies don't show kids waking up with their ears buzzing or going to the doctor 10 years later and dealing with hearing loss. But you are expected as an adult to judge the consequences of your actions through the information you absorb from the sources around you. If porn shows you that wild animal sex with strangers is great, and the newspaper tells you that HIV is on the rise, use both.

The great undiscovered territory of the American judicial system is someone with HIV/Herpes suing the adult industry for "making" them have unprotected sex with strangers. Expect that within 5 years.

9) I couldn't find the specific story. But I'd say...well, does a bar lead to alcoholics? Not really, since you can get booze anywhere, but it literally opens the door wider for those susceptible. Sex addicts are addicts; sex itself is the smack, porn is just a quick way to get your methadone.

Posted by: Chuck at May 5, 2004 11:14 AM

Iím hoping this post will take off. I think this is interesting. The recent HIV scare in the industry really has brought this topic to the forefront. Here are my thoughts on the matter.

1. Pornography is increasingly becoming more mainstream...is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Iím not sure itís either. I do think that the reason it has become more mainstream is the Internet. The Internet offers easy access without public accountability. That, perhaps, is bad. The people who easily access it now, might have hidden it in the past. And, I think hiding a behavior is a significant issue. On the other hand, those who were too embarrassed to rent a video before, can see what itís all about. And, I think that helps make porn more of an educational tool for those who would not have taken the opportunity before for fear of being noticed.

2. Is pornography a form of expression that should be protected as free speech? (i.e. is it art, or crap?)

I donít think it should be outlawed, if this is what the question is ultimately asking. However, some of it is art, while some of it is crap. Either way, it is an expression of how people experience the world around them.

3. Is pornography the objectification of women and thus harmful?

I think it objectifies both men and women, which could be harmful to both sexes, really. I think that it is harmful when people donít want to be treated like objects, but are. Letís face it thoughÖsome people donít mind that. Letís use the difference of making love, having sex and fucking, for example. Anyone who says that fucking is ok, shouldnít have a hard time with being objectified, if only on occasion.

4. Does pornography have educational value?

Of course it does. I think that for individuals, or couples who are having a hard time expressing their sexuality, pornography can be a very useful tool. For those who are a bit on the shy side, there are many tasteful movies out there for their perusal.

5. Does pornography promote destructive practices?

I think it can, yes. Listen. Society is full of many different kinds of people. Not all of them are emotionally healthy people. For instance: I think that masturbating is great. Masturbation gives someone an idea of what their own body responds to and should be the first step in getting to know their own self, sexually. Masturbating several times per hour and not being able to do your job because of a preoccupation with sex, is a huge problem. Thatís the same condition, experienced in two different types of people. Pornography can assist one of these types of people and lead to destructive patterns in the other.


6. Is pornography damaging to personal relationships?

If youíre both on the same page, it shouldnít. Where pornography is damaging to personal relationships is when one person believes one thing about it that the other person does not.

7. Does pornography increase the viewer's tendency to lie?

Lying is an admission of guilt, of sorts. Lying (which can also be the omission of information) is essentially a big olí billboard saying, ďI know this is wrong/unacceptable, which is why I have to cover it up.Ē Therefore, # 6 can come into play here. If two people arenít on the same page about pornography, it can lead to deceitfulness of the partner who wants to maintain a lifestyle that the other does not. And lying, I believe, can most certainly damage relationships, as the behavior behind the lies often gets acted out in lieu of the truth. Again, there are many different kinds of people out there. The person who is looking at porn several times per day is more likely to hide it than the person who looks every now and then. And, the person who is looking every once in a while, is likely to be more healthy than the person who is looking several times per day.

8. Does pornography promote sexual freedom and promiscuity, and especially the lack of consequences of such behavior?

For people who are not secure in their own sexuality, yes! I would also add people who are insecure, in general.

When people are insecure, they seek people/ things that make them feel secure. Insecure people often gravitate toward sex for validation. For these people, watching porn could be the impetus toward seeking out unhealthy situations. Sharon Mitchell hit the nail on the head with her last Op-Ed in the NYT, stating that many of the people in the adult industry are not emotionally healthy. I would take it a step further to suggest that those who are not emotionally healthy struggle with insecurity more than anything else.

9. Does pornography lead to sexual addiction?

I feel very similarly toward this question as I did the previous question. I think that pornography CAN be the impetus toward more destructive behaviors, but, for a healthy individual, no. Some people are more prone to addictions than others as well.

Porn is like any other indulgence out thereÖits ok if used in moderation. When it starts rolling over into other important aspects of your life, like family and work, itís time to seek a therapistís help.

Posted by: Linda at May 5, 2004 03:10 PM

Chuck. I adore you. But you know that. That said...

TRIPLE FISTING?! What the hell kind of porn are you watching, man?

That's rhetorical, of course. I know it's out there and I just think that it's specialized porn. Those films really only caters to certain types of people. (I have to say that I wouldn't want to be personally involved with any of them) Whatever floats their boat. But, you're right....that's where the porn crusaders go first. There is porn as tame as the book The Joy of Sex, in film version. That can be very helpful to couples, or inexperienced individuals. Though, moving up on the sexy scale can really light some fires. ;)

Posted by: Linda at May 5, 2004 05:01 PM

There's now a fifth actor who tested positive for HIV in the porn industry. So, here's a new question...

This is undoubtedly a wake-up call for the industry. But, what kind of wake-up call is it?

Physical?
(professional - should use condoms)

Emotional?
(should heal past experiences)

Spiritual?
(moral - should get closer to God & give up hedonism)

I'm going to comment on that last one briefly with regard to some very specific comments that have been made within the catholic church. There have been nuns and priests who have talked about their connection to God being one that is very sexual in nature. Just keep that in mind.

(I don't want to get into the abuse thing here...that's not what this is about)

Posted by: Linda at May 6, 2004 09:27 AM

Personally, I don't watch the weird porn. But what I find interesting is that so much "regular" porn goes into territory that used to be taboo, and not just regular porn making "taboo" subject tapes. It's not an exaggeration to note what your average porn star does in a Vivid Video production is notably more...involved than, say, 15 years ago. And watching what is expected today compared to 30 years ago is like night and day.

As for a wake-up call...the porn industry (like most institutions) has a short memory. This is the second major HIV scandal to hit within a decade. And the supposed changes of heart are all good but there are two factors which lead me to believe that any reforming is short-term at best, cynical at worst. First is: porn is and always has been rebellious in nature. No matter how mainstream, as long as we live in a Christianized/religious society, the idea of fucking for the enjoyment of others is off the main path to begin with. The rebellious aspect fits into why so much porn is becoming bizarre. Once you've had one thing you have to go to the next then the next and the next, always a bit more extreme, to be outside the line of acceptable. Secondly, porn is more openly driven by money than almost any other industry. And the market wants bareback. Because porn is about fantasy, and most fantasy does not involve condoms, clinic trips or dental dams. And what the market wants the market is gonna get. So after a year or three of the "best headline ever" to quote Fleshbot ('No More Anal Creampies!' from a well-known porn director), expect a "with new advances in screening and medicine we're safe to go back to full-on sex response." What I like to call ramming speed. ;)

Posted by: Chuck at May 7, 2004 11:29 AM

I'm at work right now so I'm unable to take the time to answer these right now, I will over the weekend. Great post Linda, which reminds me, I have to respond to your email LOL I have't forgotten about you.

Posted by: Kim at May 7, 2004 12:14 PM

1. Pornography is increasingly becoming more mainstream...is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Mainstream as in . . . 'Friends' type mainstream? That would be bad. Kids don't need access to porn, period. Mainstream...as in more accepted among consenting adults - - not a big deal to me if it is. 'Mainstreaming' it can open up lines of communication between couples like never before.


2. Is pornography a form of expression that should be protected as free speech? (i.e. is it art, or crap?)
Face it - some of it is real crap. I've seen some that I consider art. The line is soooo fine, though, isn't it? There is some erotic art that I love - - that others call pornography. It's all a matter of taste.

3. Is pornography the objectification of women and thus harmful?
If the women involved are being forced to do it against their will - - it's objectification. If the woman involved is consenting and willing - it isn't, at all. The same goes for the femenists view of strippers -- saying that it's objectification of women. Talk to any stripper, and she'll tell you that she's using the power of her own sexuality to make good money on the side...taking advantage of horny men - - which, in turn could be considered the objectification of men as desperate sexual objects who will pay good money for something they can't have.

4. Does pornography have educational value?
Oh I think so - - come one, for any one who was watched or seen pornography (art or video form) tell me that you didn't see something new and exciting? Or new and disgusting? I think porn can give a person ideas and insight into their own sexuality.

5. Does pornography promote destructive practices?
It can...depending on the viewer and their perspectives. Just like violent films can promote destructive practices. Just like religon can promote destructive practices, depending on the emotional health and perspective of the person watching/viewing/experiencing it. If the viewer cannot put the film/print into proper perspective, then yes - it can promote destructive practices for some.

6. Is pornography damaging to personal relationships?
Again, depends on the person. I would say, in general - no. Not in my personal relationships. But I have a friend who becomes increasingly jealous when she finds her husband viewing porn on the internet -- that's her thing. I think in a healthy relationship - respect is the key. If one partner has an real negative reaction to porn - then the other partner needs to respect the limits of the one they love.

7. Does pornography increase the viewer's tendency to lie?
A liar is a liar. A compulsive liar has it breed into their character and they will lie with or without porn. They may use porn as the excuse as to WHY they lied -- but the issue with chronic and hurtful liars goes far deeper than the influence of porn in their lives. If they aren't lying about porn - they are lying about something else.

8. Does pornography promote sexual freedom and promiscuity, and especially the lack of consequences of such behavior?
Sexual freedom - quite possibly.
Promiscuity and lack of consequences - not in my experience. Depends on the emotional maturity and the priorities of the individual viewing said porn.

9. Does pornography lead to sexual addiction? (I'm going to refer you to an old Blogger post on this one, since the archives aren't here yet, so that you can decipher what qualifies as a sex addict)
All of this is so particular to the person involved. I don't think it leads to sexual addiction, no.

Cool post, Linda!

Posted by: Lisa at May 7, 2004 10:38 PM

Hi Linda! As always, I love the way your brain works. I've never met a woman whose brain I can admire in this country, one who talks about the issues you talk about.

1. Pornography is increasingly becoming more mainstream...is this a good thing or a bad thing?

It isn't a great thing in my opinion, sex without love, immediate sexual gratification, sex as a physical act alone, I just can't relate to that.


2. Is pornography a form of expression that should be protected as free speech? (i.e. is it art, or crap?)

Any feature film would be considered a form of expression, esp. under Post Modernists views.

3. Is pornography the objectification of women and thus harmful?

It is a male dominated world and women in porn cater to the male. Is that harmful? It's the way the world goes: male dominated.

4. Does pornography have educational value?

No. The contrary I'd say.

5. Does pornography promote destructive practices?

Depends on what kind. S&M, perhaps, zoophilia, etc. Normal "porn" wouldn't promote destructive practices, I'd say.

6. Is pornography damaging to personal relationships?

If one is addicted to it, it will bother your partner, if not and both you and your partner agree to watching it, no.

7. Does pornography increase the viewer's tendency to lie?

A liar is a liar, pornography or not.

8. Does pornography promote sexual freedom and promiscuity, and especially the lack of consequences of such behavior?

Yes. Immediate sexual gratification, sexual fullfilment as an end and not the means of achieving an amorous spiritual bond with your partner.

9. Does pornography lead to sexual addiction? (I'm going to refer you to an old Blogger post on this one, since the archives aren't here yet, so that you can decipher what qualifies as a sex addict)

One can be addicted to many things that are out there. Porn is just another one of these things. Perhaps a teenager might be more succeptible to this kind of addiction.

Posted by: Answer-Seeking Gal at May 8, 2004 01:01 AM

Linda,

I found your blog via A Small Victory. Maybe you and your readers are interested in my interview with Dwayne Bell (founder and editor of Body in Mind)?

All the Best,

Martin Lindeskog
Gothenburg, Sweden.

Posted by: Martin Lindeskog at May 10, 2004 07:35 PM

Can I just say, that I like porn and then leave because, I'm a guy and in no shape to have any sort of debate on the issue.

Posted by: dick at May 10, 2004 08:07 PM

Chuck's a guy too!

But, yes, if you want to leave it like that, you can.

Posted by: Linda at May 10, 2004 08:13 PM

Well, "dick", that was my first response too; because I have some pr0n around here and I can't say it's something I'd announce to the world. (Just to you and to the TENS of thousands! of a small victory's readers.)

1. Porn mainstream: overall, I'd say, good. Alcohol is mainstream too.
2. Free speech: printed word if it's free, yes; filmed, free or not, no. It's prostitution.
[It follows from 1 and 2 that some forms of prostitution ought to be legal but regulated.]
3. It's the objectification of THOSE women who engage in porn. It only becomes the objectification of women (or men) when the porn takes over one's moral compass, by which time we are talking about addiction and not porn as such.
4. It has educational value. It would have more if we could be sure that both sides were enjoying it and not acting.
5. Destructive practices when addicted. See #3.
6. Damaging to personal relationships: when addicted, when there is insufficient communication, when someone is lying. But the educational value can make up for that.
7. Porn does not make one lie unless addicted.
8. I would say that porn does promote promiscuity and a disconnect between act and consequence. (That's the worst problem with porn IMO.)
9. Anything fun can lead to obsession.

Posted by: David Ross at May 10, 2004 10:43 PM

Porn will flourish as long as sex is a commodity. Once sex is no longer a commodity there will be less call for porn.

By it's own availability there has become less interest in it because you can see it whenever you want. The taboo aspects are gone. As such Porn makers are going to further extremes to feed a jaded audience.

So in it's own way porn is bringing about the end to porn, because when nudity and sex become so mainstream as to be ho hum there will no longer be a market for it.

Posted by: IXLNXS at May 11, 2004 02:42 AM

I'm not so sure about that IXLNXS. Porn has been around practically forever, while society cycles between Victorianism and the free-love 60's. It may be more or less acceptable depending on the age and current mores, but I would doubt there's really anything new being done. Even today's "extreme" porn isn't original, just more commonly available.

Posted by: Ted at May 11, 2004 01:39 PM

1. Pornography is increasingly becoming more mainstream...is this a good thing or a bad thing?
This depends largely on the nature of the pornography in my opinion. For example, the American film industry censors are very hard on sex in mainstream movies, yet you only have to watch a French film to understand how much more liberal the Europeans are. But do the American censors (and American people in general) consider French film pornography? I bet quite a few people would, while just as many (such as lil ole Aussie me) would call it art.

So where do you draw that line? When it comes to 'regular' porn that you buy in x-rated shops I have no problem with it becoming more mainstream, as long as access to it is restricted to adults and the porn in 'tasteful' (ie, no unconsented violence [this doesn't include BDS&M of course], rape or people forced to participate against their will or under the influence of drugs). I don't know where this leave Euro hardcore videos however *boggle*.

There's nothing wrong with healthy human sexuality. One main thing wrong with porn at the moment is there's not enough female-directed/written/produced porn out there, with most of it catering to the traditional male audience (and therefore tecahing them REALLY BAD sexual habits eg, a woman is always up for it straight away, cos foreplay is for nerds man.)

2. Is pornography a form of expression that should be protected as free speech? (i.e. is it art, or crap?)
Depends on the 'porn'. Like I said above, European cinema is art in my opinion. You only have to watch the opening scene of Betty Blue to understand how lovemaking is a beautiful part of human existence that shouldn't be ignored by film.

However most of the porn out there I would never classify as 'art'. But it does have its place in society and should be allowed to continue.

3. Is pornography the objectification of women and thus harmful?
Nope. 'objectification' depends entirely on your point of view. I believe objectification is entirely the wrong reaction for women to have against sexuality and only encourages the very submissiveness they're trying to alleviate - women are sexual creatures and men are slaves to their sexuality more than women. The more women who realise the power they have over men in that regard the better - ala Cleopatra. What man isn't slavering into his boots at the sight of a naked woman? Why are theyr watching porn in the first place? I'm not saying you should use that power in a bad way, more that women should not feel powerless and therefore objectified in sexual situations. The whole femme fatale thing exists for a reason

As soon as we start denigrating sexuality as something bad that objectifies women we lose both our enjoyment and our power over the situation. Women should support eachother in this and stop the whole 'slut' thing we've got going on. Embrace it sistas! You'll enjoy it a hell of a lot more.

I hope I've made this answer understandable. It's Sunday morning, I'm hungover, and I know what I'm trying to say, so hopefully you do too (you must also blanketly excuse my spelling for this reason)! I'm not trying to say that we should have an uprising and that all men are evil and must be sexually dominated. Rather we should recognise the power in our own sexuality, embrace it and enjoy it.

4. Does pornography have educational value?
Only if it's realistic. Some of the porn I've seen would be scary if imitated in a real life situation... how many women are lubed up without any foreplay, or are just gagging for their best friend to take part in a threesome every weekend (not that there's anything wrong with that if it's your inclination), let alone some of the 'double penetration' scenes with two men in two holes that seem to increasing in popularity lately...!

And does the the pool really need to be cleaned that often?

I do worry about the message that men take away from porn. It certainly only promotes the sexual side of their relationships with women. Which is why women tend to enjoy story-based porn more (mills and boon or european cinema anyone?).

5. Does pornography promote destructive practices?
See answers above - only if it's destructive or violent porn. I don't believe porn has a destructive power over society in general, unless someone becomes addicted to it and creates a 'festish' type relationship with it (ie, they can't achieve orgasm without the object of their fetish).

Then there's the whole safe sex issue, but thankfully more and more porn is promoting the use of condoms and safe sex practices. But there is an oxymororn there isn't there... how do condoms fit into the 'heat of the moment' nature of porn?

6. Is pornography damaging to personal relationships?
See 4 & 5. I think porn can be a great part of a healthy sexual relationship if used tastefully and respectfully. Most things are good in moderation.

7. Does pornography increase the viewer's tendency to lie?
I'm not sure I understand this question? Why would porn encourage people to lie?

8. Does pornography promote sexual freedom and promiscuity, and especially the lack of consequences of such behavior?
Ah. Hmmm. Now, is there anything wrong with promiscuity as long as the partners involved are responsible and consenting? Most tasteful porn promotes the consenting part, however not so much on the responsible part. They could do their bit a little more to promote safe sex and the consequences of not practising such.

As for promoting promiscuity, I don't necessarily think so.

9. Does pornography lead to sexual addiction?
Not dircetly. Porn would be a symptom of the larger problem, a method for facilitting the addiction, rather than the cause of the addiction itself. Addiction is always an indicator of a larger problem yet society ALWAYS condemns the symptoms rather than looking to solve the problem (street drugs anyone? Hello? ever thought of regulating drugs or focusing on why people use them? Does the word 'escapism' mean anything to the government whatsoever? [/end minirant])

Additional Question from Comments: This is undoubtedly a wake-up call for the industry. But, what kind of wake-up call is it? Physical? (professional - should use condoms) Emotional? (should heal past experiences) Spiritual? (moral - should get closer to God & give up hedonism)
I don't think God necessarily thinks hedonism is wrong, unless it harms others. Why is so much of religion about giving up pleasure in life? Sure, hedonism can lead to selfishness, addiction and abuse of power, but that's no reason for religions to condemn pleasure completely. There's absolutely nothing wrong with masturbation for example, and I think it's extremely unhealthy for certain religions to condemn it - some poor teens are more likely to get guilt complexes leading to anxiety and depression based on that kind of crap. We are alive and have pulses. We procreate. If you believe in creationism (I don't), then why would God have made sex pleasurable if he didn't want to up the odds of our survival? And why should we feel guilty for indulging in the pleasure principle?

Back to the question, yes I do think this is a wake-up call for the industry, but also for society in general. I see this is as a very important step in bridging and healing the relationship our society and culture has with sexuality.

Posted by: goldie at May 15, 2004 10:22 PM

PS I'm impressed with the ASV linking ;). you go chick!

Posted by: goldie at May 15, 2004 11:38 PM

You touched upon some things I didn't think of with regard to this, Goldie. Namely, the sexual power that women yield. However, in order to harvest that power, you really have to know yourself well. I've met some women in their 30s and 40s who have never masturbated. I have also met some women who have taken power to its extreme.

Through all of these answers, its really easy to see that everyone agrees that there has to be a healthy balance. When that is not there, problems are sure to follow. But, that's the case with any "drug." (Other drugs: food, alcohol, religion, chemical substances, shopping, sex) The word moderation has come up more than once.

I definitely agree that there should be more women making porn. Not only is current porn inaccurate about the really HOT things some of us women enjoy, but it's inaccurate for men as well. I mean, ejaculating on tits is not the preferred method a majority of the time by the majority of men. I don't even remember seeing a porn where the man finishes inside. Is there one out there?

One more thing...foreign films are some of the most erotic film on the planet. Much more seductive and in tune with how, many, women respond to sexuality.

Posted by: Linda at May 16, 2004 08:56 PM

1. Pornography is increasingly becoming more mainstream...is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Depends.

2. Is pornography a form of expression that should be protected as free speech? (i.e. is it art, or crap?)

Absolutely.

3. Is pornography the objectification of women and thus harmful?

No, it is objectificaiton of people and not necessarily a bad thing.

4. Does pornography have educational value?

Absolutely.

5. Does pornography promote destructive practices?

Only when combined with agression.

6. Is pornography damaging to personal relationships?

No.

7. Does pornography increase the viewer's tendency to lie?

No.

8. Does pornography promote sexual freedom and promiscuity, and especially the lack of consequences of such behavior?

Is sexual freedom a bad thing?

9. Does pornography lead to sexual addiction?

No.

Finally, there is an abundance of empirical literature on the effects of pornography. Look into it. Sheesh.

Posted by: Patch at May 17, 2004 12:19 AM

Finally, there is an abundance of empirical literature on the effects of pornography. Look into it. Sheesh.

I wasn't preparing a briefing. I was presenting questions for people to discuss. Sheesh.

Posted by: Linda at May 17, 2004 07:31 AM

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Posted by: eqxvnoq at August 5, 2005 09:28 PM

Seriously no scams! This method really does work and is a very easy way to make fast money. A little while back, I was looking on the web for easy ways to make money and I kept thinking that all of the ways I was reading would never work and were just scams but not this one! The article that I had found said that I could make thousands of dollars easily in a matter of weeks with only an initial small payment of $6.00. I thought, "Yeah, right, this must be a scam like most of the rest", but like most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that if I sent $1.00 to each of the 6 names and addresses listed at the bottom of the article that I would make great money but only if I followed the following steps. After sending the $1.00 to each person you were then instructed to rewrite the list by taking the 1st person off of the list then moving the 2nd person to the 1st spot, and the 3rd person to the 2nd spot, etc, etc. Finally you should be left with the number 6 spot empty and this is where you place your name and address. After reconfiguring the list you then must post it on about 200 newsgroups (doesnít matter but the more places you post the more money you make!). There are thousands and thousands of newsgroups from around the world so this task is easy and that was it when I was done! no catch. So after thinking it over, and talking to a few people that were on the list, I thought about trying it. I figured what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00, right? Like most of us I was a little skeptical because it seemed so easy and a I was a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! After reviewing the proís and conís of the investment I decided to carry out with it. I invested the measly $6.00 and guess what??... Within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail!! I was very shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about $25.00. By the end of the second week I had made a total of over $1,000.00! In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in rapidly. It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps. Now let me explain to you how this works and most importantly why it works. Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it.

STEP 1: ∑ Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." ∑ Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. ∑ Next, place one paper in each of the 6envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase (PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST), your name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing with this letter is creating a service. THIS IS

ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! ∑ Now mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: 1. KEVIN LEE 8377 APT. 1 MONTGOMERY RUN RD. ELLICOTT CITY, MD 21043 2. STEPHANIE HICKS 1283 EVENING CANYON, HENDERSON NV 89014 3. LORI LEVEROCK 3610 MAGNOLIA RIDGE CIRCLE APT. B PALM HARBOR, FL 34684 4. MIKE DEGEN 10 DEER RUN LEBANON, NJ 08833 5. DIANE EMERY 35739 AUSTON DR. DADE CITY, FL 33525. 6. KAREN FORRESTER 4900 COLONNADE AVE. HOLIDAY, FL 34690

STEP 2: ∑ After you have mailed out your letters creating a service and making this legal, take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list.

STEP 3: ∑ Change anything you need to in this article, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I believe there are close to 24,000 groups in USA alone). All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post the more money you make!

DIRECTIONS ---HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS Step 1) You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the bottom of this document, and select 'copy' from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter into the computers memory.

Step 2) Open a blank "notepad" file under accessories in windows and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the 'edit' menu select 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list.

Step 3) Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go back to.

Step 4) Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.)

Step 5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the post message button. After you have completed these steps you are done with your first posting Congratulations you are that more closer to easy money!...THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup! That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the large amount of mail you will receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT AND REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** Now the WHY it works part: Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replieseach, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now!!

Posted by: LEGAL WAY TO MAKE QUICK MONEY at August 26, 2005 04:04 PM

Seriously no scams! This method really does work and is a very easy way to make fast money. A little while back, I was looking on the web for easy ways to make money and I kept thinking that all of the ways I was reading would never work and were just scams but not this one! The article that I had found said that I could make thousands of dollars easily in a matter of weeks with only an initial small payment of $6.00. I thought, "Yeah, right, this must be a scam like most of the rest", but like most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that if I sent $1.00 to each of the 6 names and addresses listed at the bottom of the article that I would make great money but only if I followed the following steps. After sending the $1.00 to each person you were then instructed to rewrite the list by taking the 1st person off of the list then moving the 2nd person to the 1st spot, and the 3rd person to the 2nd spot, etc, etc. Finally you should be left with the number 6 spot empty and this is where you place your name and address. After reconfiguring the list you then must post it on about 200 newsgroups (doesnít matter but the more places you post the more money you make!). There are thousands and thousands of newsgroups from around the world so this task is easy and that was it when I was done! no catch. So after thinking it over, and talking to a few people that were on the list, I thought about trying it. I figured what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00, right? Like most of us I was a little skeptical because it seemed so easy and a I was a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! After reviewing the proís and conís of the investment I decided to carry out with it. I invested the measly $6.00 and guess what??... Within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail!! I was very shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about $25.00. By the end of the second week I had made a total of over $1,000.00! In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in rapidly. It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps. Now let me explain to you how this works and most importantly why it works. Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it.

STEP 1: ∑ Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." ∑ Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. ∑ Next, place one paper in each of the 6envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase (PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST), your name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing with this letter is creating a service. THIS IS

ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! ∑ Now mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: 1. KEVIN LEE 8377 APT. 1 MONTGOMERY RUN RD. ELLICOTT CITY, MD 21043 2. STEPHANIE HICKS 1283 EVENING CANYON, HENDERSON NV 89014 3. LORI LEVEROCK 3610 MAGNOLIA RIDGE CIRCLE APT. B PALM HARBOR, FL 34684
4. MIKE DEGEN 10 DEER RUN LEBANON, NJ 08833 5. DIANE EMERY 35739 AUSTON DR. DADE CITY, FL 33525. 6. KAREN FORRESTER 4900 COLONNADE AVENUE HOLIDAY, FL 34690

STEP 2: ∑ After you have mailed out your letters creating a service and making this legal, take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list.

STEP 3: ∑ Change anything you need to in this article, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I believe there are close to 24,000 groups in USA alone). All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post the more money you make!

DIRECTIONS ---HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS Step 1) You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the bottom of this document, and select 'copy' from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter into the computers memory.

Step 2) Open a blank "notepad" file under accessories in windows and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the 'edit' menu select 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list.

Step 3) Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go back to.

Step 4) Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.)

Step 5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the post message button. After you have completed these steps you are done with your first posting Congratulations you are that more closer to easy money!...THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup! That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the large amount of mail you will receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT AND REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** Now the WHY it works part: Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replieseach, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now!!

Posted by: Make Money Quick at August 26, 2005 04:06 PM


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Posted by: generic drugs at September 26, 2005 03:43 AM
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